Brexit and the NHS, on Sky News

Stephen Dixon paraphrased, from 0:00

Brexit and health, the presenter began: how would the NHS cope with a mass exodus of staff, and how did the EU staff already here feel about the referendum result? He introduced me as a doctor at Lincoln, noting that nearby Boston had voted to leave by almost 76 per cent, and put it to me that there was no real indication of any mass exodus at all.

Dr Kishan Rees from the recording, 0:26

I think that’s entirely right. The first thing to bear in mind is that scaremongering, like a mass exodus, is not particularly helpful to discussion or debate, to be perfectly honest. I think what’s more likely is that we’ll see a slow, gradual decline. As a healthcare professional, as a doctor, my concern is you see colleagues who have come over to the NHS to help provide healthcare, and they’ve been made to feel unwelcome, they’ve been made to feel not wanted, and that’s no way to welcome international professionals and colleagues who provide an excellent standard of care.

Stephen Dixon paraphrased, from 1:04

But the vote was not really a view on those immigrants who had come here to work, the presenter countered; people had simply had their say on the whole EU question.

Dr Kishan Rees from the recording, 1:17

That’s another little soundbite, isn’t it. There are a few, like “Brexit means Brexit” and “the people have spoken”. As a doctor, I deal in facts if I know them, and I’ll say that I know them, and that’s something I haven’t really seen with politicians too much. It’s been played out in the media in soundbites and little snippets. You know, 350 million pounds on the side of a bus. I think that will have influenced a lot of people, because the NHS is very popular, it’s almost like a religion. And if the politicians are allowed to say things like 350 million pounds a week going to the NHS, and then the day afterwards say, “Well, actually, sorry about that, it could be spent anywhere”, is that really on? Is that really what we should be encouraging?

Isabel Webster paraphrased, from 2:04

Isabel, a fellow Sky News anchor, put the scale to me: some 110,000 EU nationals already working in the NHS, and the Royal College of Nursing warning of a service already stretched by staff shortages. What would that slow, steady decline actually mean?

Dr Kishan Rees from the recording, 2:12

I think it’d be a disaster. Speaking as a doctor, I see the rota gaps that these doctors and nurses plug, and if they weren’t there it would be a real problem for the care we provide: patients are going to suffer, people potentially have to wait longer, people might not get their surgeries. So I don’t think it’s particularly helpful that there’s a nasty air in the right-wing press about British jobs for British people. Jeremy Hunt has, to be fair, talked about increasing medical student numbers, but this is an example where government policy doesn’t necessarily translate directly to health, because the new medical students he’s talking about are going to take 10 years to come on tap. So whilst it’s a positive step, it’s not going to help in the immediate short term.

Jacquie Beltrao paraphrased, from 3:06

And as a proportion, she asked, if every non-British doctor and nurse left, how many would that be?

Dr Kishan Rees from the recording, 3:13

Well, in terms of Boston specifically, there are 111 consultants at Pilgrim Hospital. 16 were born in the UK, 24 were born in the EU, and 71 were born outside the EU. So these are consultants at the top of their field, experts in their area, running the service. But no one’s claiming they would have to go. We don’t know. Nobody has cleared it up from a government point of view, so we don’t know either way, do we, because there’s all this talk about them being used as bargaining chips. As long as British nationals abroad are protected, we can’t give any kind of confirmation until we know.